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  1. #31
    Registered User Nishu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annymoll View Post
    These children have to eat, have a roof over their heads, and clothes to wear.If you do not provide those things you are negligent.If you cannot support two families, don't put yourself in that position.Jail , loss of license, credit reporting... makes sense to me be it mother or father.
    Well... This kinda says to me that if a married couple goes through a financial rough spot and can not support their children, that maybe they're negligent? Perhaps we need to start arresting people who ask for thing like WIC and food stamps, because obviously they're pulling their weight, right?

    If someone told me that they lost their license or were jailed because of any other debt, I'd call that idiotic. My first response would be "How the hell do they expect you to pay if they're making it impossible for you to work?" I mean, if you can't pay, you can't pay.

    Granted that there are men who will do anything to duck out of their responsibilities, and it's sad that people can be so worthless. But I've also seen women abuse the system, asking for outrageous amounts, lying about paternity, using the money as a condition on visitation attempting to alienate the children from their father...

    Those situations can be ugly in general and I don't think it's fair to vilify men even those who can't pay. I'd never occur to me to slander a married couple or a single mom who was having trouble providing for the kids. Anyone can go through a rough spot. /shrug.

  2. #32
    Registered User Mom2Many's Avatar
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    Child support is calculated by using the income of BOTH parents. If one parent doesn't have income then an income is assigned to them...40 hours/week minimum wage. Again, it's not about having a rough spot and not being able to meet your payment for a couple of months...We're talking never making a payment or sporadic payments. We're talking about parents that go out of their way to not pay their court ordered support. As I said before, if you're having trouble making your payment then you can go back to court and try to get the amount adjusted.


    As for women that make visitation dependent on child support...that's crap. They're two seperate issues. One does not affect the other...assuming you go through the legal system for court ordered support/visitation.

  3. #33
    Registered User annymoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nishu View Post
    Well... This kinda says to me that if a married couple goes through a financial rough spot and can not support their children, that maybe they're negligent? Perhaps we need to start arresting people who ask for thing like WIC and food stamps, because obviously they're pulling their weight, right?

    If someone told me that they lost their license or were jailed because of any other debt, I'd call that idiotic. My first response would be "How the hell do they expect you to pay if they're making it impossible for you to work?" I mean, if you can't pay, you can't pay.

    Granted that there are men who will do anything to duck out of their responsibilities, and it's sad that people can be so worthless. But I've also seen women abuse the system, asking for outrageous amounts, lying about paternity, using the money as a condition on visitation attempting to alienate the children from their father...

    Those situations can be ugly in general and I don't think it's fair to vilify men even those who can't pay. I'd never occur to me to slander a married couple or a single mom who was having trouble providing for the kids. Anyone can go through a rough spot. /shrug.
    Going to jail for not paying support is not done on a first offense. You see it for parents that habitually fail to provide for their children. It as meant as a punishment.If you do not provide for your children the court will find you negligent, married or divorced. You must feed, clothe and provide housing for your children(I assume if you apply for assistance that one is trying to meet the needs of the kids.... but if support was paid it may not be necessary.)I do not know the games men and women play in divorce. But basic needs must be met.One working parent, a working mother or father, may be experiencing hard times as well.To me, it is a matter of responsibility.I know many divorced moms and dads. They all pay support, they lose a job, it is adjusted, they pay support. I had no idea there were so many deadbeat parents.

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  5. #34
    Registered User fernykins's Avatar
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    I think any parent who has been orgered to pay CS should. Some don't want to because they don't want to take away from themself. I have 2 boys that pay what they are supose to. OOne of it took 2 years to get it lowered. He was making some money being military but since he was hurt in Iraq the money is not there, and where he is at the CS div said he could still make 1000 a month when all he was getting was 557 a month. At least be real about the amount ordered to pay. If you don't make enough that go back to court no matter how long it takes and get it changed. I am on the right of the child not the exes.If you make a baby take of the child. Do what the courts say.
    Fern

  6. #35
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    I am at the cusp of signing a separation agreement with my husband. I have one son that I pay child support for.

    I'm in Canada so it might differ, but I was given a table that had gross wages on it and how many kids and I pay what was on the line.

    I am the mom and my youngest lives with his dad. (My oldest is older and he and his brother drew straws over who would live with whom)


    Everything financially I do (what apartment to rent, whether to have a car or not....I budget in child support). And I will continue to pay it until I no longer have to or my son wants to move in with me. At which case, my husband will pay me child support (at a lower rate because he makes less than me).


    I can't imagine getting into a relationship with another man where I would suddenly forget I had child support to pay and get in over my head with new financial responsibilities. I didn't walk out of a 21 year marriage to ever be that stupid again. lol

  7. #36
    Registered User struglew3kids's Avatar
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    Parthy thank you, you make a excellent point. You should always think of your c/s before you get into any debt or relationship. It does not mean that you can't have a life. It justs means that like the rest of us, you must live within your means.
    I have several friends who work for the child support office. In california the state will take over very soon. What was going on was that a parent could send money to some of his kids (his/her choice) and not to all. Now the state will equally spread what the parent sends. Also the budgets will be black and white.
    I also hear of a lot of absent parents who regardless the issues they have with their ex's are very aware and on top of their child's needs.
    I support all parents get legal visitation, that way if there is conflict, the kids will never be used as part of their games.

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mom2Many View Post
    No one gets sent to jail when they're a month behind. They get sent to jail when they stop paying for months at a time. My ex was behind 10K...didn't work for 7 months out of the year and all he got from the judge was a stern warning.

    Not all exes are bitter...getting jerked around with excuse after excuse makes one less likely to cut someone a break.



    How could he not afford to pay that making 80K??? That's just insane.
    because of his back child support, which is a lot, and became that way when he was unavailable to get a reduction, the division of child support wont help out, and they add 9% interest we cant buy anything without paying higher fees because no one will use our credit, we cant buy a house everyone thinks with that amount on your credit you will go to jail and wont be able to pay, jobs dont like garnishments, we were talked into filing a chapter 13 on the child support, thats another rent payment basically and we still pay out weekly amount to child supprt but its something we will never get out from under..its very very hard and depressing, i stay home because there is no point in me working just for gas and daycare..thats why there are months when it hard to pay..something happends all the time..this month we HAD to get tires, last month the power steering went on our truck..not like we can go out a buy another..so when something goes bad we have to fix it, we have oil for water and heat (really depressing) its hard on people..no one ever thinks of the fathers side of the story..there are two sides to all stories..

  9. #38
    Registered User Mom2Many's Avatar
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    ..this month we HAD to get tires, last month the power steering went on our truck..not like we can go out a buy another..so when something goes bad we have to fix it, we have oil for water and heat (really depressing) its hard on people..no one ever thinks of the fathers side of the story..there are two sides to all stories..
    Those things happen for single parents as well. The transmission went out on my van. My oldest broke her glasses and I had to pay $200 for a new pair. (Her dad is responsible for 1/2 of that but I've yet to see the $) The closest job I can find is still an 80+mile commute each day...I'm paying more for gas than I am for my mortgage. Things are tough all around, but you still have to take care of your responsibilities.


    You say that there are 2 sides to every story, but you're coming across as saying every parent that's behind in CS has had hard times and it's not their fault. The truth is that there are parents that are very much "out of sight/out of mind" where the care of their children is concerned.

  10. #39
    Registered User HandyMom's Avatar
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    My ex had no problem going back to court again and again to have his support lowered (from $50 a week, mind you) to the point he was paying *nothing*. He kept telling the judge he couldn't keep a job, got fired, was laid off, etc. He got a court appointed lawyer so he wouldn't have any legal fees also.

    And that is where the story ends as far as child support. He pays nothing now and has paid nothing for over 7 years. He remarried 7 years ago and his wife works while he does not, so there is no income to garnish, no support to go after as far as the court system goes.
    From what I hear, this is nothing new.

  11. #40

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    i forgot to mention our health insurance is 700 a month but anyways..no i know there are some deadbeats out there but there are also people who have moved on with their lives and its hard to pay sometimes, or are trying to do the right thing, but they are slow at getting there sometimes

    here it doesnt matter if you get fired all the time and dont have a job, you dont pay you lose your license and next you are locked up...

    well we have gotten of the OP issue and im sorry..good luck for both you and him!

  12. #41
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    Maybe it's because my daughter's father bailed 3.2 years ago, and my daughter is only 3.5 .... see where I'm going here, but I do believe having laws in place that punish any dead beat parents are needed.

    I haven't seen ONE dime from her father, and I doubt I will. He knows the money is due, but doesn't care. I don't mind working two jobs to support my child, and have, while he works 32 hours a week at a dead end job. Why SHOULD he be able to get a contractor's license, when he obviously isn't going to do so to actually support his daughter. By doing something like that, he is only looking out for himself.

    Luckily, he hasn't had anymore children, but if he ever does, I'll still be racking up all the back child support.

    I haven't taken him to court to have his wages garnished or his driver's license taken away, though I have considered it. All I hear is that he "doesn't have any money" ... so I know I just don't want him to bother.

    Oh, and BTW, he doesn't actually see his daughter either. If push came to shove, I wouldn't hold back visitation while waiting for child support. Luckily, I don't have to worry about it.

  13. #42
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    I haven't read all the posts, but I did read the one where someone asked how can someone pay 840.00 for one child. When we went through a custody case (the second one and we one both) the mother was ordered to pay 854.50 per month for one child and she was unemployed at the time. They went on her previous jobs and took into consideration that it was "ludicrous" that she was applying for jobs at McDonalds and Old Navy during the case and asked the court to set her rate based on minimum wage. She royally ticked the judge off. He also made her pay our $15,000 legal fees to boot and when she found another job, her wages were garnished. She was making $90,000 a year and her husband almost twice as much. So, to make a long story short, they set the rate on what your income is and what your earning potential is....at least that's the way it was in our case.

    BTW, I know what it's like to not receive support. I have never received a penny from my ex in 17 years and my mother never received a penny from my dead beat father either.
    Last edited by Missourimom; 08-13-2008 at 10:46 PM.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dad_of_4 View Post
    Well, I know I'm going to get flamed for this but here it goes anyway. I know this does not apply to all cases but it applies to most.

    I believe the child support laws that take away a fathers ability to make money are stupid. I have know guys that got caught up in the trap the laws have set. They get laid off for several months. They make partial payments but not the full amount. So, they fall behind in all there bills including child support. Once they get a rehired or another job, their ex has already filed papers with the court and the hounding begins. So while they are tring to catch up, the law starts in on them.

    How is a guy going to earn money if he can't drive to work because his license has been suspended? Or can't get a contractors license to make money doing odd jobs. So then he can't make money, so he falls futher behind. Next thing is he gets arrested. Now how can he make money if he is in jail? I really find it hard to have sympathy for the ex-wives when they are doing everything in their power to punish the fathers rather than ensure their children get child support.


    I have know guys that get laid off and find new jobs making less. Is the child support reduced? Of course not, well at least not without going through the courts again and even then it is doubtful. The courts and society have basically set up the fathers to fail. All the courts and laws are punitive towards them when they fall on hard times as everyone does.

    I think child support should be set on a quarterly basis. If the guy loses his job, the child support goes down. After all if they were still together as a family the kids would feel the effects of their dad being unemployed. Why should it be any different just because the parents separated. So go ahead and keep grinding the ax with the ex's, just realize things will never improve for your kids as long as you do.
    Thank You Thank You . ICAM

  15. #44

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    I didnt read through all the replies but here goes..I'll probably get flamed too but here it is from a guys side.
    First and foremost the child support system is a joke...it's biased and favors the mothers over the fathers. you're automatically labeled a deadbeat dad right off the bat and the mothers can do no wrong in the courts eyes they deserve to get paid as much as possible.

    heres my experience into the wonderful world of support.
    I have one DD who is 6, her mother and I split up before my DD was born but I have been there since day 1 in the delivery room.

    At first I told my ex that I would pay 1/2 of the daycare plus all of the things I needed to take care of her, clothing , diapers, formula..etc ect..we would alternate weeks. that worked out for awhile and when my DD was about 2yrs old my ex filed for support.

    I went in to the Child support office, signed the paperwork and agreed to $200 a month since I was part time, not by choice, I work for an airline and after 9/11 I was cut back. When I went into the original hearing I took all my receipts for daycare and baby needs for the first 2 yrs . the judge..mediator whatever she was says ok you owe $2950 in back support from the day she was born. i said "no, maam..I agreed to pay 1/2 of the daycare plus buy everything I needed to take care of her for 50% of the month". She says "do you have everything all added up and in order?" I said "no, but here are the receipts and it's at least $3000 worth" she says ....."I dont want to see that" turns to my ex and says the following "How much does he owe you??"
    I was floored...pretty much whatever my ex said was taken as fact with no proof. my ex says "at least $500..." the judge says "pay her $500, you have one year.........next"

    So I have my support deducted from my pay...well one day i had my DD and this was about 2 months after I signed all the paperwork for the auto deduction, I'm sitting there and my DD mother shows up, acting all nice and she says "so...daycare hasnt been paid this month" I said "nope...you wanted your support, you got it, i'm not paying daycare anymore" she says "well I havent gotten a check yet" I said "take that up with child support enforcement" she grabs my DD, runs out my door and says "if you arent paying then you cant see your daughter" and takes off in the car with my DD. I end up giving her $300 so I could see my kid...that came back to bie me because I didnt do it through the state and I never got credit for it and then they suspended my DL and I had to pay it again

    trying to keep this short as I can.....
    So she finally starts getting her money and somehow manages to get my tax return too. 3 yrs go by and it's time for another "adjustment". I tell my ex that I'll up that payments to $450 since I'm back at full time. She agrees, i type up a letter of agreement on that amount and we have it notorized and go to the courthouse.

    Same judge chick as before, and she looks at the letter and says "you agreed to take $450/mo. is that what I'm to understand?"
    all of a sudden DD mom says "well yeh but I changed my mind"
    the judge looks at her and says "how much do you want?"...I was just standing there like are you kidding me???? well she goes for $500 instead. So I end up paying $500 a month and I'm living alone and trying to make my rent, utilities, car payment, feed myself and take care of my kid.

    Then I get a letter saying that I'm behind by like $1200..apparently when they upped my support my payroll department wasnt initially taking enough out of my check so they up my support another $100 a month to get caught up...so as of now I'm paying $600/month and I take my daughter every other weekend from fri till monday.

    after support and taxes I bring home $1000 a month. meanwhile my DD's mother is making twice as much as me, gets $600 a month from me, her ex husband who has a kid with her and pays support to her lives in her house as a roommate and pays rent and this chick has the nerve to cry to me that shes so broke, everytime I see her shes crying the blues..I cant pay my electric bill, I cant pay this, I cant pay that but yet she goes out all the time and one day shes picking my daughter up from my house, opens her trunk and shows me her new skates.

    I dont have a problem paying support, I have a problem with the excessive amount guys are having to pay out every month. I think that if I have to be responsible for supplying $600/mo. then her mother should be responsible for providing receipts to show exactly where all that money goes. I could keep my daughter and
    it wouldnt cost anywhere near $600/mo to feed, cloth and take care of her. if it werent for the fact I live with my gf theres no way I could even afford to maintain a place on my own.

    please tell me how it costs $1600 a month to take care of one kid (assuming that each parent covers 50% of the costs to take care of that child). Dont tell me, mortgage payment, car payment..stuff like that cause thats a lame excuse everyone needs a place to live and a way to get around. Besides , I have to supply a roof over my DD's head, I have to have a car to take her back and forth just like her mother does. Then if I try and actually make extra money I just get pulled back into court and they up her monthly amount. i dont even bother trying to make money anymore. I just figure I'm broke for the next 12 yrs

    I mean just the costs to feed, clothe and take care of the childs needs. If someone can justify the outrageous amounts I'll retract my comments about child support being a joke.

    Two other things I have major issues with #1...greedy mothers using child support as free money and trying to squeeze out every dime they can get. #2 Deadbeat fathers who take no responsibility for their kids..it's one thing to be trying and making sure you spend time with your kid. it's a whole other thing when you're trying to run from your responsibility instead of being a man and taking care of your kid.
    Last edited by Quadcam; 08-14-2008 at 12:41 AM.

  16. #45
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    Quadcam, I do understand where you're coming from and my post (#42) is an example, although maybe rare, that sometimes father's do get a fair shake. Our judge saw my stepdaughter's mother as a deadbeat who had quite a bit of money and was living a high lifestyle to proof it. We didn't ask for a certain amount in support, the judge set it according to the state guidelines. We finally agreed to let our almost 18 yr old sd move to MN to live with her mother and now we are paying support according the same standards.

    You know what drives me nuts? How in some states (such as ours) we are required to continue paying support until she graduates college. We don't have to support our other two throughout college, but we have to support sd.

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