An honest (curiosity based) question for Obama supporters

MoonMommy said:

Do you think that actually has validity or do you think that lawsuit is just a crock of poop or a stunt?

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The only reason I'm giving any creadance (sp?) to this lawsuit is because its being filed not by some Joe Schmoe, but by a political figure (he's the former Deputy AG, I believe).

I heard him on the radio last night and he gives a compelling arguement for why he believes Obama is avoiding the issue. He also noted that there is not a single Federal Agency charged with confirming the eligibility of Presidential candidates. Until this year its never been an issue. He's been asked by several of the "elders" of the DNC to basically "shut the hell up" ~ which leaves me curious.

He stated he believes that Obama's grandmother's health is not as grave as has been reported and that he simply needed an excuse to go to Hawaii to dispose of some papers to show he's not eligible.....not sure if I buy that one or not.

But I am curious as to why Obama has not produced an original Birth Certificate when asked to do so??? (he has provided an altered copy of a Hawaiian bc ~ but its been altered, so therefore invalid). If its a non issue, why not just produce the proof and let it go to rest? Why resist?

I just think it is a crazy matter. I can understand how annoying it must be for people to pull out all the stops on you. But then again, why not just hand over his real, true bc to the courts and let them authenticate it? I don't get that.

To you post earlier, Jamauk, about voting against one candidate.. I never did really like McCain. I feel that he is just like Bush, and while I am republican, I do not agree with everything he has done. I was pulling for Ron Paul, who couldn't have been more different than McCain. But, now that McCain has the nomination, and Obama is the other choice.. :sigh: I will be voting AGAINST Obama. It is for specific reasons, and I am not opposed to everything he is saying, and I can see that he really does believe what he is saying..that doesn't make me agree with what he says, though.
The thing is, until Palin came in, I was going to just not vote, or vote independent (which would be like the same thing, since they are, almost by definition, unelectable in this country.lol) With her on McCain's ticket, it makes me a little more comfortable, because I feel that with her going against her own party back home, with her strict ethics, she may scare him into not doing the wrong thing.

I am for some things that the neo-cons have ruined for republicans, so they are in effect, not even really for them now.

I feel that vaccines should not be pushed upon people in this country, and that our doctors are in the pockets of big pharma, who are, in turn, the bed with the government. I feel that we have rights defined by the Constitution. Leave those rights alone. The government should not have any say on that past the point of admitting we have those rights. I think that we need smaller government. I feel that my state is not the same as a larger, more industrial, liberal state, and that we cannot, in fact, be governed by the same laws. feel that we have enough laws. We need to stop banning things, and just make the laws we have be followed through. Punishment is punishment, take it. I believe that our government is to blame for where we are now as a nation, whether it be money, war, or whatever. I believe it goes back for years and years, and no one president is at fault solely. I believe that we should take better care of the earth. Not that new laws should be put in place making people do something, but that we should have easily available options. I do not believe in global warming, but I do believe that this is our home, and we should take care of it. There are more, but I will stop at these.

That being said, I will vote McCain, because the laws that Obama will bring into effect will change my everyday life tremendously. I will be in essence, also voting against Obama, not merely voting for McCain.

I so wish we could still get Ron Paul in there!

It's really cool to just hear how people think about things, and why they feel they way they feel, and be able to tell your side without the looming threat of being bashed. I have been curious of the same thing. Good idea, Jamauk. And great thread!

AmyBoz said:

I understand the thinking of, if you are innocent, just show the darn thing. At the same time, I understand the thinking of, I am not even giving credence to this BS by responding to your demand.

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I can truly see your point. However, with someone who has a background as colorful (for lack of a better term)...how about "complicated"? He had to have known that it would be open to total scrutiny.

With this much question in his background, why not say "Ok, I get it. I've led a life that is very different from most of you. Let me spell this out. This is what happened and when. You can all rest easy knowing that I am, in fact, eligible to be your President."

Then there would be no more question. Lay all of the facts out on the table. Show proof and BAM, the problems are gone. Why the secrecy?

When we first had our house on the market we had some issues with our hard wood floors. Our realtor gave us some great advice (the only good advice she gave) ~ she said "own the problem first. If you take ownership of the problem before the buyers do, its a non issue. They can't use it against you."

So, instead of all of the rumors and speculation going around, why not just set the record straight once and for all. Then the question dies and is no longer a "distraction from the issues".....unless there's something to hide.

Jamauk said:

--snip---
For those of you that are planning to vote for Obama on Nov 4th (or have already done so with early voting) ~ and if you don't mind sharing ~ I am simply curious as to why you believe he deserves your vote.
--snip--
So, for those of you that are voting for him, I'm just curious ~ why?
--snip--
I just...I don't understand all of the support this man has received and considering its likely he's going to be our next President ~ I'd like to try to understand.

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There are many reasons why... but (and this will piss of many republicans, I'm sure)...

I'd happily put Joseph Stalin in office if it meant avoiding Bush 2.0.

Palin... well... we won't go there...

Moor said:

I have been talking to some people around here. It really scares me what some people are saying.
For some, it's just a matter of race. I just stood there dumbfounded! I asked them if they even cared about the issues and they told me yes, but this is a historic election and they wanted to be a part of history. OMG!!!!

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I wonder why this kind of crap continues to surprise you?

Moor said:

They feel that Obama is going to help with the economy by taxing the rich. Well, it's going to help the economy all right, TANK it.

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And 'trickle-down economics' hasn't?

When one system fails... it's time to try another... and this one has failed catastrophically.

Moor said:

Some have said that they don't feel comfortable voting for McCain, because of Palin and her inexperience. I asked about Obama's and get this, one person said, He's a man, he can wing it better! Can you believe that???????

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I repeat... this surprises you... why?

AmyBoz said:

I don't LOVE Obama. I'm not a groupie, nor do I think he is the second coming. However, he and I are like minded-on many issues, and McCain and I are polar opposites on many issues.

I whole-heartedly disagree with the war in Iraq. Truth is, we are there now. Nothing will change that fact. However, I fully believe that it is in the best interests of our nation and our soldiers, in particular, to begin to pull-out (slowly, not overnight) and to focus more attention on Afghanistan. A military that is stretched too thin is not effective, nor is it safe for the soldiers. I support the soldiers, I do not support the war.

I am pro-choice. 100% pro-choice. I could not vote for McCain/Palin, knowing their position on abortion, with a few Supreme Court positions possibly up for filling in the next few years.

I don't believe that either man has a fabulous plan to get us out of this economic crisis. I think what is needed is a happy medium between their ideals. Not all the way to socialist, but not forgetting the little people either. I work in an area where I see people struggling...HARD...to get out of poverty, but the system is set up against them. I don't think McCain is interested in looking at the system. I think Obama is, and even though I think his ideas are little too far left (can't believe I just said that) I think that he will wind up being forced to move closer to center than McCain would.

I'm a public school educator. I'm a public school parent. I am the product of excellent public schools. I am a public school fan. I look at both of the women that McCain and Obama have "tapped" to serve as their Secretary of Education and I feel that Obama's candidate has a much better plan in mind to tweak the system of NCLB. It's NOT working. It is a great idea in theory, but in practice, it's NOT working, nor is the system of accountability rational in any way, shape, or form.

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:yeah:
Could not have said it better.

AmyBoz said:

Also, to be honest, McCain really rubs me the wrong way. They criticized Obama for saying he was about Change and then adopted the slogan as their own. I think McCain's choice of Palin says a great deal about him. "Hmmm...how can I combat a black guy? I know! I'll get a chick!" Most popular governor in the US...yes, but come on...it's Alaska. (No offense to my Alaskan FV'ers) However, I think that the mayor of NYC would have more qualifications to be VP than the governor from Alaska. Also, look at the population of Alaska compared to the populations of other states. Not hard to be popular when there aren't too many people to impress. And, there are many, MANY Alaskan women who have been protesting her nomination. The rape rate in Alaska is through the roof. If I were a woman and were governor, you bet your a$$ I'd have spent a great deal of time taking care of that problem. I'm not sure she even noticed. I know that many think it says good things about him. I disagree. They keep touting how they are "mavericks." Well, mavericks are unreliable. You don't know how they'll respond to a situation. They often are not well-liked. I don't want someone like that representing and making decisions for my country. I want someone who is diplomatic and can ease tensions and work toward solutions, not whip out the gun and start shooting.

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As another FVer said... Palin comes across as a cutesy dingbat, at best. At worst, potentially the biggest idiot ever to step foot in the white house.

I might have had more respect for McCain if he had chosen someone like Ron Paul, (there are others, but my mind is throwing up a roadblock).

AmyBoz said:

Moor, Please be aware, though, that for every person who is voting for Obama because he is black, there is a person NOT voting for Obama because he is black. It's the worst possible way to make this decision, but it's out there.

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All too true.

Nishu said:

I may as well out myself. I've always considered myself a conservative and even a Republican (a real republican, ie, a libertarian.) But I've always ended up voting Democrat. I'm 26, btw, so keep in mind how many elections I've actually been old enough to vote in. :laugh:

Quite frankly, I'm sick of the Republican party. Absolutely freakin' sick of them.

I don't like taxes. I don't like infringements upon my personal liberties. I don't like playin' cop to every other damn country in the world. These are the things that the Republican party have traditionally stood for and god bless 'em for it.

The party today is a f***in' joke.

If you're going to spend gazillions of dollars of taxpayer money for a no good reason, then by god give me HEALTHCARE instead of a bunch of dead soldiers of fat cat bankers. Don't talk to me about personal liberties and then go pushing unsafe vaccines that are manufactured by the company you're profiting from. Don't act like you support small government and then push things like the damned patriot act. Don't pretend like you want to cut government spending when you're blowing money on corporate welfare. Forgive me if I'm a little suspicious about the standards and accountability in education when so many of the people pushing it are profiting from both the perpetuation of a test-happy system and a the hysteria it creates.

I know what a free market looks like. This is not it! Don't use the perfectly valid concepts of brilliant free market economists to push your dirty practices whenever it suits you.

This is a lesser of two evils here. I've always believed in free markets and free enterprise, but apparently the Republican party does not. I've always supported the traditional ideals of the Republican party and I've always defended a lot of their practices. Quite honestly, I feel like a damned tool for it.

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There is a Libertarian Party in the US, Nishu. Nowhere near as popular as the main two... but it exists.

Ironically enough, (according to http://www.politicalcompass.org/) I'm a Libertarian as well... though I'm far more left-leaning than you are.

MoonMommy said:

I have some of the same reasons as Amy.

I am not a groupie. I will state again that my choice was Edwards and I hope there is still a place for him in an Obama administration.

I don't agree with McCain's tax plan. I don't think trickle down economics works. I don't think giving tax breaks to the wealthy REALLY stimulates the economy the way that they hope it does.

I am for Universal Health Coverage for All. I think this country should move to socialized medicine. Obama's plan is taking us closer to that. McCain's doesn't.

I am uncomfortable with Palin, not because of experience, but because of her stance on social issues and honestly, I have had it with our nation becoming more and more of a theocracy and less and less of a democracy. Her reliance on God, while fine for her personal life, is NOT fine with me when it comes to her making policy issues for a state or a country.

I am pro-choice. I am for gay marriage. I am for stem cell research and the FUNDING of that research. I am against nuclear energy (I am wondering who's back yard these plants are going to go in). I am against drilling in Alaska and off shore. I am for Renewable Energy. And I am a crunchy tree hugger. Oh....and I am for Gun control. I firmly believe that people do not NEED automatic or semi-automatic weapons to defend themselves or to hunt.

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Except for the gun control issue, I could not agree more... I do agree that people don't need military grade weapons... but I don't like the idea of gun control.

MoonMommy said:

Finally, (after all my rambling), I personally don't think this country can take another 4 years of a Republican administration.

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I KNOW I can't.

Mom2Many said:

I'm pro-Obama mostly because of his stance on social issues. I also think that the US needs some good PR after the last 8 years and that he's got a better chance of mending fences than John McCain.

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The US needs some good PR at home, not just abroad.

Jamauk said:

John McCain was born on U.S. Soil ~ as all military bases (even those in other countries) are considered U.S. Soil. His birth is a matter of public record.

Having someone bring in their own Hawaiian bc and saying "it looks identical" is not credible ~ in my opinion.

It matters because it clearly states in the Constitution that in order to be President of the United States ~ one must be a natural born citizen of the United States.

All that this lawsuit is asking (and I think its a legitimate question) is whether or not Barack Obama meets this criteria.

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This crap amuses me... because, according to the US's laws... being born to an American citizen (Obama's Mother) AUTOMATICALLY makes you a US citizen... regardless of birth place.

Jason

Oh....and I am for Gun control. I firmly believe that people do not NEED automatic or semi-automatic weapons to defend themselves or to hunt.

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semi auto covers like 90% of guns. I can crack off shots out of a bolt action rifle just as fast as a semi auto. It only shoot one at a time. A revolver is even a semi- automatic. The only way a revolver can not be semi-auto is if it is an old cowboy single action. All semi auto means is you pull the trigger and a bullet comes out.

This is why I don't agree with gun control. People want to get rid of things they don't even understand. Even if semi-autos were banned you would still have a pump shotgun, which you could fire as fast as you could pump and pull the trigger.

The terminology needs to be understood before you argue for or against something.

I am not talking about anyone's beliefs, but, in essence, this is exactly what was pissing people off about voters. An uninformed vote is wasted.