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...The image that will signal that this is not just another recession is people lining up at banks to withdraw their money due to a lack of confidence in the banking system...
Wow! I sure hope it doesn't come to that!!! I have been avoiding setting up investments (such as RESPs and RRSPs) recently because of the talk of recession then recession. I'd hate to invest my money only to have it snuffed away from me! KWIM?
 

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Wow! I sure hope it doesn't come to that!!! I have been avoiding setting up investments (such as RESPs and RRSPs) recently because of the talk of recession then recession. I'd hate to invest my money only to have it snuffed away from me! KWIM?
Remember that we did not have the FDIC in the thirties. I don't think our money will go away. I am afraid of the perception that it will.
 

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I agree with fixer. This stuff happens all the time (mortgage crisis, etc) just not to this extent. We can blame the banks all we want, but in reality it's the buyers who turned their dreamhome into a crisis.

We bought our house 19 years ago and paid $110,000 for it. Not a big house, 1450 sf. Raised two kids, several animals, all went fine. House prices went up and ours was selling for about $380-400,000. Mighty fine profit if we had sold! But the difference in taxes alone was enough to make us stay here. Besides, the kids were now grown and we sure don't NEED a bigger house. All around us people were selling and moving onto bigger and better. I, in turn, stood at my kitchen window and watched these new homeowners move in and thought to myself 'DH and I are doing something wrong! We make decent money, but how can all these people afford to pay these prices, and we can't?' Of course, now we know - they can't either, and every single one of those houses around me is in foreclosure or is selling short. My very small neighborhood looked like a war zone there for a while.

None of that happened because we are heading into a depression. It happened because people got the 'I-gotta-have-its' and 'I-want-it-bigger' and 'I-want-it-newer'. They didn't stop and really think about whether they could afford it or not. They let some bank - who is only there to take their money - tell them they COULD afford it if we do it THIS way. And look what it got them - nothing but a huge black mark on their credit report. DH and I could have done the same - but we knew we couldn't afford it.

I don't think the mortgage/housing crisis alone will send us into another depression. I DO think that the constant reminders we all get every day about the state of the economy will keep people out of the stores out of fear; which will cause companies to continue closing up shop; which will cause continued layoffs; which will continue to contribute to the housing mess; which will continue to affect cities/counties/states. I think we're stuck in a vicious circle, and I don't have any ideas about how to jump off this roundabout. I think THAT will see us headed toward another depression - it will be manmade out of fear of heading towards one. It's like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 

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My question is how will we know we are in a great deppression. I don't know if there is an official definition. The image that will signal that this is not just another recession is people lining up at banks to withdraw their money due to a lack of confidence in the banking system. This, to me, will be when we cross a line into something that may rival the thirties. I guess I am old enough to have some perspective. I have seen the stock market go down before. I have seen the real estate market go down. Just keep in mind, there is no law that says your home or investments must appreciate every year. Some people act indignant at the fact their home is worth less than when they bought it. It's called bad timing. It happens. I can't help but wonder how much the twenty-four hour news cycle has to do with people wanting to make this a deppression. It will be as bad as it is regardless of the terminology we use to describe it. I also think that the term deppression is being used to scare people into buying stuff or blindly following our politicians. Don't get me wrong, I know times are bad. I just don't think they are as bad yet as people make them out to be. People overextended themselves and ended up losing their homes. Even in the best of times, banks fail, people lose jobs and homes are foreclosed on. My advice is to look at YOUR situation. Make decisions based on what is happening in your life, not based on fear because some talking head on TV said we are heading for a deppression. Thanks for letting me get this off my fifty inch chest. As you can see, it has been bothering me for quite some time.
One of the networks was interviewing people who had went thru the great depression and they said this is nothing yet. I think the politicians are talking it up so we that they can pass their pork stimulus bill and no one will complain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 · (Edited)
My question is how will we know we are in a great deppression. I don't know if there is an official definition. The image that will signal that this is not just another recession is people lining up at banks to withdraw their money due to a lack of confidence in the banking system.
I have read that you will not have that image to signal a bank run as we live in an electronic age. People can get to their money electronically. Another image that was often shown was people lined up at soup kitchens and today with the food stamp program that is not going to be seen as much.

The things listed such as FDIC. Food stamp, Unemployment Insurance are the safety net and have helped us all though so many smaller bumps in the road.
But this system of programs have not been tested before in this type of environment.
I just hope that this downward spiral can be stopped and reversed because a loss in consumer confidence is nothing compared to a loss of government confidence.
As long as the government can keep supplying these programs this will be an isolating event as people sit alone in their homes watching TV , playing games or on the computer surfing.

I have often laughed and said there have always been pheasant, I have always been a pheasant, I will not cease to exists.
The good Lord will see me through no matter what.
 

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I have a question..

On that chart do they take into account the fact we have MORE population now than in the 20's and 30's?

More people out of work simply because we have more people?
 

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I have a question..

On that chart do they take into account the fact we have MORE population now than in the 20's and 30's?

More people out of work simply because we have more people?
That implies a fixed # of employment positions, which isn't the case.
 

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I have a question..

On that chart do they take into account the fact we have MORE population now than in the 20's and 30's?

More people out of work simply because we have more people?
That implies a fixed # of employment positions, which isn't the case.
This is why I have no faith in the government's or anyone's numbers on unemployment, inflation or any other statistic. If I don't know the raw data used or the method of statistical analysis, I feel as though I might as well flip a coin. It is way too easy to make numbers support a certain position.
 

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Last figures I heard was 7.6% But the total percent unemployed including the "under-employed" i.e. people forced to work part time though they want to work full time, is a whopping 17+% . Getting closer to that 25% figure of the worst of the Great Depression.
 

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You know its not just the banks, people not being able to pay their morgages...... Its people loseing their high paying jobs or losing the hours like my son he no longer worked 40hrs a week so his pay goes down.. thats less he can afford or you go from a decent paying job to making min wage........ like my son and his wife working full time the company down sizes and the only thing they can find is min wage. So now they can't pay their rent and everything else......So he's lucky they moved in with me. My home is 1160 sq feet it now holds 4 adults and 3 children........ I can hardly turn around, My home is paid for. Its not just greed that has caused all these finanical problems.
Fern
 

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I would say we are there now. After the amountof pork that is being passed thru congress the deficit is now larger than any administration added all together and trying to bankrupt the country pushing every socialist policy he can lay his hands upon. As soon as I knew he was going to get elected I moved almost all my money out of stocks into money market accounts.Most people who realize a democrat is bad for business started selling early. I am glad I did. I don't think it will be safe for a while yet. I think he wants to really mess it up so people will be happy to get on the government welfare rolls. Having lived thru the Carter Debacle I think we can count on a little more pain. Even Warren Buffet who supported him is feeling it. I am happy I have purchased some gold , I am building up the cash. and still looking for a bigger gun to hold, while clinging to my religion. and in the words of BTO- You ain't seen nothing yet. He is just warming up.
 
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I would say we are there now. After the amountof pork that is being passed thru congress the deficit is now larger than any administration added all together and trying to bankrupt the country pushing every socialist policy he can lay his hands upon. As soon as I knew he was going to get elected I moved almost all my money out of stocks into money market accounts.Most people who realize a democrat is bad for business started selling early. I am glad I did. I don't think it will be safe for a while yet. I think he wants to really mess it up so people will be happy to get on the government welfare rolls. Having lived thru the Carter Debacle I think we can count on a little more pain. Even Warren Buffet who supported him is feeling it. I am happy I have purchased some gold , I am building up the cash. and still looking for a bigger gun to hold, while clinging to my religion. and in the words of BTO- You ain't seen nothing yet. He is just warming up.
I predicted a 5000 dow, but I even heard an estimate of somewhere in the 3000's.
 

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I've heard those same things Fannie. I remember the Carter Debacle, oi. and you are right on about BTO---"you ain't seen nuthin yet!"

You must be a watcher of Gerald Celente, I think he's right.

And if perhaps I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it and continue eating my stockpile. If I'm right, I'll gladly continue eating my stockpile and be relieved I got one.
 
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i could wrong...i could be naive...so please don't stone me.....but i don't believe the end of the world is coming as we know it.... true-we have hit a HUGE bump in the road....and some of us fell out of the cart....but the big wheel keeps on turning and the economy will keep on plugging along... we may fall a little harder before we can get back up and brush ourselves off but i don't believe the cart is going to run over us... times generally suck right now...for alot of people 'life sucks' and i really feel for those that have 'lost it all'... but the world will go on...the economy will turn around....(it even did after the 'great depression')....for those who have learned from this event (like our parents did thru the depression) we will be all the better off.... maybe it was time for us to be 'set down in the corner and made to think about our actions'....it worked for our parents/grandparents......
 

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DOW 3500 easy This is going to be UGLY and LONG.

And I'm with you Frugal Fannie when I saw what, not who, WHAT was getting into office (and I'm talking about his SOCIALISTIC Ideologies I want to make that perfectly clear before one of the drones tries to call me a racist) I moved all my stuff to safer ground too. It was all over the TVs in our cafeteria this morning (and we are right upstairs from the NASDAQ in Times Square) that the market has LOST $1.4 TRILLION JUST since his "coronation" So much for the DOW going up 50,000 (as some of his fans were running around claiming and singing his praises).


Best place for one's money these days is definitely going to be in CA$H (read: Money Market, good old fashioned savings, etc). Forget even Bonds, get it all into CA$H as they say CA$H is King during times like these. And don't forget back during the Great Depression, those with CA$H were the ones that survived the best.
 

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i could wrong...i could be naive...so please don't stone me.....but i don't believe the end of the world is coming as we know it.... true-we have hit a HUGE bump in the road....and some of us fell out of the cart....but the big wheel keeps on turning and the economy will keep on plugging along... we may fall a little harder before we can get back up and brush ourselves off but i don't believe the cart is going to run over us... times generally suck right now...for alot of people 'life sucks' and i really feel for those that have 'lost it all'... but the world will go on...the economy will turn around....(it even did after the 'great depression')....for those who have learned from this event (like our parents did thru the depression) we will be all the better off.... maybe it was time for us to be 'set down in the corner and made to think about our actions'....it worked for our parents/grandparents......

The thing about it is that during the first depression we didn't have trillions in national debt, we didn't (well not me now or ever) have HELOC, we didn't have credit cards, and we didn't have massive home repos like we do now. We also had more of a manufactoring type economy and the war played it's part in "saving us".

Now we have "a new" government, adding more debt by the second,pet projects out the wazoo and more debt than we can handle.

Well crap now I am depressed..God bless America!:usa:
 

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Hmm..socialist..hmm...

Wasn't it "socialist" when George W. Bush and Paulson started "corporate socialism" which just handed out $350 BILLION in cash to "welfare queen" banks?!

Isn't "medicare" and "social security" just socialism for the elderly?

Isn't SSI just "socialism" for the disabled?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions..but read the definition and apply it to EVERYTHING..not just things you happen to dissapprove of.
 

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Hmm..socialist..hmm...

Wasn't it "socialist" when George W. Bush and Paulson started "corporate socialism" which just handed out $350 BILLION in cash to "welfare queen" banks?!

Isn't "medicare" and "social security" just socialism for the elderly?

Isn't SSI just "socialism" for the disabled?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions..but read the definition and apply it to EVERYTHING..not just things you happen to dissapprove of.

Just to clarify:

SSI is Supplemental Security Income. SSI makes monthly payments to people who have low income and few resources and are:

Age 65 or older;
Blind; or
Disabled.

SSDI - Social Security Disability Insurance pays benefits to you and certain members of your family if you are "insured," meaning that you worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes.

Supplemental Security Income pays benefits based on financial need.
You do not have to had paid into the system.

SSDI means you have paid into the system. For people who have worked all of their lives and become disabled this is a very REAL distinction.
 

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Umm, actually I do believe it was FDR who brought "Welfare", "Medicaid" "SSI" and "Social Security" to the USA and just look at the state all those have been in for decades. History is your friend, if you read and learn it correctly. And yes, I believe FDR was the beginning of our Socialistic Disaster Presidents. Followed closely by Carter and now Obama. ;)

Also, how convenient that you didn't mention that it was Pelosi and the Dem Congress that pushed for the Bank Bailout by stating that we "couldn't let them fail" that they "were too big to fail". Again who really handed the money to the "Welfare Queen Banks?" Yep, I thought so.

http://www.larouchepub.com/pr/2009/090127lar_plelosi_resign.html
 

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I agree Gardengal..that Obama was not the first. I guess that's what wierds me out. I keep hearing people saying the "S-word" as if it were somehow something that Obama invented..or is foisting on the public..

To quote Billy Joel innaccurately.."He didn't start the fire"

People who voted for him knew exactly what we were getting. And we don't mind it. It was after all 53% of American's who voted for him. That's the rule here..majority rule.

Trust me, I wasn't any more thrilled with what the "majority" were up to when the other side won..than the "minority" who didn't vote for Obama are now.

But I'm just pointing out that having different opinions on politics doesn't mean that it's OK to "demonize" the other side. We're ALL Americans, we're mostly decent hard-working people just trying to pay our bills, save a little, raise our kids (or pets), and maybe through frugality get ahead a little before we die.

Are there some people who are @sshats? Of course there are. There always have been, whether it's corporate greed, individual greed, government corruption, an individual cheating on their taxes, the government "rigging" the system so that it never seems to help the average person, or the individual "gaming" the system to get something for nothing.

But they certainly aren't the majority of people in this country. And thank goodness..majority rules!
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mzpepper..thanks for the clarification..I have, thank goodness and knock wood, never had to be on either so was unaware of many of the specific differences.

I would still have to insist though..that any time anyone is getting more out of the system than they actually paid in..it's still socialism.

Because the many are paying for helping the few. I'm personally happier thinking that someone who NEEDS help is getting my tax dollars than that they are being spent on a war somewhere else.

I'm afraid people here are going to misconstrue this as a criticism because they see the word socialist as a bad word..please don't. Socialist isn't a dirty word to me or my friends. It's just another system for nationwide finances. It is no better and no worse than capitalism.
Both can be and are just as easily corrupted by the "golden rule"..He who has the gold makes the rules.
 
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