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I would say we are there now. After the amountof pork that is being passed thru congress the deficit is now larger than any administration added all together and trying to bankrupt the country pushing every socialist policy he can lay his hands upon. As soon as I knew he was going to get elected I moved almost all my money out of stocks into money market accounts.Most people who realize a democrat is bad for business started selling early. I am glad I did. I don't think it will be safe for a while yet. I think he wants to really mess it up so people will be happy to get on the government welfare rolls. Having lived thru the Carter Debacle I think we can count on a little more pain. Even Warren Buffet who supported him is feeling it. I am happy I have purchased some gold , I am building up the cash. and still looking for a bigger gun to hold, while clinging to my religion. and in the words of BTO- You ain't seen nothing yet. He is just warming up.
We moved our money as well! And haven't lost squat.Putting gadzookas into MY pocket. And all those who wanted to live like the Waltons?Let me line you up and slat the snot out of you. And then - let me assure you- you may just get your wish. But I don't intend to be there.Poverty sucks.
 

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cricketlegs...don't be depressed...you personally are doing a great job holding up in this economy (i can tell by your posts)...being upset and depressed is only going to run you down mentally & physically....while 'I' still believe things will get better i'm hoping you can take a deep breath and try to have 'good days' until this whole thing 'blows' over (HOWEVER- that may be)..... hang in there girl.....:hug2:
 

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Dow 5000? 3000? I hope not. I thought the 6500 was bad.

We are seeing more locals businesses go out of business. It's really sad. Hard on the little guy. The big corporations will survive.

I just hope it isn't as bad as people are predicting.

To me it feels like we are waiting for the other shoe to drop. I fear my employeer will announce another layoff. It feels like life is "on hold"
 

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I hope not too! But I think maybe there had to be a sort of market reset at some point. Not just the DOW etc..but also unfortunately the businesses.

It sucks, but so many people were buying so much stuff (largely on credit) that the "overall buying" of the population was enough to support the "overall selling" which kept many businesses in business.

With "overall buying" declining, people honestly just don't NEED as many stores all selling the same things anymore. So many of those businesses will go under from lack of demand for their products.

The truly unfortunate part is that small, local businesses really can't compete with the massive discounts that many manufacturers, say Levi's, gives to a big chain store for buying in bulk, so they HAVE to charge higher prices for their goods. Because they PAY more for those goods in the first place.

But when the economy is bad like it is now, the consumer is looking for the best possible deal regardless, and so the even slightly lower price in a big chain store will keep them from shopping at the smaller store entirely.
 

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the consumer is looking for the best possible deal regardless, and so the even slightly lower price in a big chain store will keep them from shopping at the smaller store entirely

So true. We are seeing a local hardware store closing... major home improvement chain opened in our town not too long ago.

A second business is a small sporting good store... they just can't compete with the prices offered by the larger sporting good stores.
 

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I agree Gardengal..that Obama was not the first. I guess that's what wierds me out. I keep hearing people saying the "S-word" as if it were somehow something that Obama invented..or is foisting on the public..

To quote Billy Joel innaccurately.."He didn't start the fire"

People who voted for him knew exactly what we were getting. And we don't mind it. It was after all 53% of American's who voted for him. That's the rule here..majority rule.

Trust me, I wasn't any more thrilled with what the "majority" were up to when the other side won..than the "minority" who didn't vote for Obama are now.

But I'm just pointing out that having different opinions on politics doesn't mean that it's OK to "demonize" the other side. We're ALL Americans, we're mostly decent hard-working people just trying to pay our bills, save a little, raise our kids (or pets), and maybe through frugality get ahead a little before we die.

Are there some people who are @sshats? Of course there are. There always have been, whether it's corporate greed, individual greed, government corruption, an individual cheating on their taxes, the government "rigging" the system so that it never seems to help the average person, or the individual "gaming" the system to get something for nothing.

But they certainly aren't the majority of people in this country. And thank goodness..majority rules!
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mzpepper..thanks for the clarification..I have, thank goodness and knock wood, never had to be on either so was unaware of many of the specific differences.

I would still have to insist though..that any time anyone is getting more out of the system than they actually paid in..it's still socialism.

Because the many are paying for helping the few. I'm personally happier thinking that someone who NEEDS help is getting my tax dollars than that they are being spent on a war somewhere else.

I'm afraid people here are going to misconstrue this as a criticism because they see the word socialist as a bad word..please don't. Socialist isn't a dirty word to me or my friends. It's just another system for nationwide finances. It is no better and no worse than capitalism.
Both can be and are just as easily corrupted by the "golden rule"..He who has the gold makes the rules.
I kind of agree with you that SS and other programs have some degree of socialism, but I think the American public think they are going to keep the same health care and not pay anything are not going to get squat. I am speaking out because, most are ignorant. They will experience no health care and heavily rationed care and if they are older forget it. They have no idea that they will probably not have any care as they will be deemed to old. I am not worried about me. I will have private heath insurance and a guaranteed government pension that is inflation adjusted for the rest of my days. I can go out and pay privately for my hip replacement. I am worried about my kids and future grandkids- They are not going to have squat because of the spending. The American's are also ignorant that the unemployment rate will be a lot higher than it is now as it will be more costly to employ people.I thought I had heard europe averaged over 20% unemployment. Just think depression all the time. No one rides for free, someone some where has to pay for it. He will probably crash the dollar and we will go into super hyper inflation like Argentina. I think he is trying to do it.
 

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To answer the original question...yes, I believe we are headed into another great depression.
 

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I am going to skip over the politics and jump right to the original question...

So what do you think are we headed towards a Depression? and if so how long do you think it will be untill most people will feel the effect?
I have to admit, I don't know if we are heading in to something like 1929-1939. I do think we are heading to a "Great Confussion". Too many people are taking news as gospel, be it good or bad... The only difference is the location of where their heads are buried.

However, I do think that "we" will be our financial downfall as a country. I don't mean those who are trying to stockpile, or even those who convert money to cash... I mean those who are tipping the scales at extreme ends; either refusing to part with a penny or sliding the plastic with no realistic goal for repayment.

Moderation -- not panic or denial
 

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If I remember my history correctly one of the reasons that the Great Depression was so devastating was because of the lack of social programs in place. No food stamps, no section 8, no disability, no medical, no cash payments, no head start, no reduced or free lunches, etc. So that said, if we removed all social programs would it look more like the Great Depression? I'd say it might be worse.

I know there has been no run on the banks but more and more people I know are shuffling their money, buying gold and stashing their cash in their homes. Our food pantries are almost empty out this way, they stretch as far as the can but they end up turning away about 1/2 of those that have lined up when the last bag has been handed out. There are 2 tent towns 15 minutes from where I live. I'm sure the people who reside there would say we were in a depression. Where I live you are very lucky to have a part time job, stores are just biting the dust so employers are reducing their staff to cut costs in hopes that they will not be next. Where I live a lot of illegals have left because they lost their jobs, bet they didn't see that coming. Here tell they were only taking the jobs we townies wouldn't do. Bull Puckey! They were working the jobs at LESS then min. wage and were being taken serious advantge of. Most around here worked those jobs are were let go to bring in slave labor. It is in our area a case of haves and have nots.There are those in our area who "still" make a lot of money. But one has to wonder for how long? A lot of the homes that are foreclosed on around here are due to lack of employment. There are so many homes out here for sale and no takers. My cousin has had her home on the market for 2 years, not one offer despite reducing her asking price to a give away price. She decided 2 years ago she better sell her home and find an inexpensive apartment because she could see the writing on the wall at her job. Now it has come to pass her 40 hour a week job is now a 25 hour a week job. She is paying her mortgage now on her EF, but that will only last so long. When that runs out she will lose her home to foreclosure. I know of another member of our family who's husband was injured and could not work, they are now losing their home due to back taxes. Another cousin and his wife lost their home because he lost his construction job 2 years ago. Who would have thought after 20 years of paying on your mortgage faithfully every month that he would not be able to find employment greater then min. wage and they would lose their home? So many more folks out here are in the same boat. We ourselves have been hanging on by the skin of our teeth, believing in God's provision. If you saw on paper our situation it would look hopeless, but 17 months ago it looked so hopeless that one would have never expected us still be floating, with our car paid off, Praise God! Are we okay? on paper no! But, we are believing, and we are tithing, and we are doing everything we can to hang on and ride out the storm. Do I think were are headed for a depression? It sure looks and feels that way around here.
 

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All I really have to say is that I will do whatever I have to to take care of THIS family in this house. I don't care if it hurts the economy, the "economy" has let me down as far as I can looking the other way.

I will buy all the food I can afford as fast as I can--in case of shortages, inflation, and riots.

I will stockup on HBA's, household and laundry cleaners, pet foods, and useful tools.

If we are forced to use our generator and someone comes to take it, my dh will shoot them..and then I will be visiting the big house every weekend!

I heard that along with the "spending bill and earmarks" come heavy taxes on heating, cooling, and gas..sounds like alot more than %5 of the american people being taxed if you ask me--more like ALL OF US...big surprise there...not.

Shutting up now, please ignore me, I am loooosssssing it.
 

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I am speaking out because, most are ignorant. They will experience no health care and heavily rationed care and if they are older forget it. They are not going to have squat because of the spending. The American's are also ignorant that the unemployment rate will be a lot higher than it is now as it will be more costly to employ people.
Caution:
:soapbox:
Do you have any proof or is this just your opinion?

Do you know your IQ? Have you compared it with the average of EVERYONE else's to see if they are indeed more ignorant than you?

Because I live next door to Canada..seriously about 30 miles away..and I know lots and lots of Canadians..and they say it's just fine. They ALL have healthcare..and homes, and send their kids to college and drive cars etc. etc. JUST LIKE WE DO.

Oh except that they NEVER have to worry about going bankrupt from medical bills.


Having socialized, single payer health care did not "ruin" their country. And guess what..you can still pay for "private" care if you have the money or want to. The difference is that those elderly people (and everyone else) who DON'T have the money still get care. And faster and better than having to go 50 miles to find the nearest doctor that accepts medicare just to find out that they don't have an appointment for three weeks.

Do you honestly think people in Canada wouldn't raise absolute H*ll if THEIR GRANDPARENTS were being mistreated??? Do you think everyone in Canada or England or France are just crazy vicious jerks who abandon the elderly?

Ok seriously..I'm done now..This is not a political board...sorry.
 

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Caution:
:soapbox:
Do you have any proof or is this just your opinion?

Do you know your IQ? Have you compared it with the average of EVERYONE else's to see if they are indeed more ignorant than you?

Because I live next door to Canada..seriously about 30 miles away..and I know lots and lots of Canadians..and they say it's just fine. They ALL have healthcare..and homes, and send their kids to college and drive cars etc. etc. JUST LIKE WE DO.

Oh except that they NEVER have to worry about going bankrupt from medical bills.


Having socialized, single payer health care did not "ruin" their country. And guess what..you can still pay for "private" care if you have the money or want to. The difference is that those elderly people (and everyone else) who DON'T have the money still get care. And faster and better than having to go 50 miles to find the nearest doctor that accepts medicare just to find out that they don't have an appointment for three weeks.

Do you honestly think people in Canada wouldn't raise absolute H*ll if THEIR GRANDPARENTS were being mistreated??? Do you think everyone in Canada or England or France are just crazy vicious jerks who abandon the elderly?

Ok seriously..I'm done now..This is not a political board...sorry.
Yes I know Canadians and English people, and I hear it is rationed by age. MY friends Dad had prostate cancer and was told to wait 18 months for an operation. If you want to die you will love Canada care and England care. I have heard horrible things about Spain care and Russian care .. We also have a sue happy society so I figure our care will be even worse than those other countries as the lower payments will probably close most of the private hospitals, because we let anyone that crosses the border use our health care and take dollars away from the ones that actually may have a health plan. California alone spends 10 billion a year on illegal immigrants. My husband is from Singapore another socialist country and even there- where you can't sue and it is very controlled people still pay to go to private hospitals as the care is better. I haven't heard of a great health care anywhere in the world. USA has the best. The Saudi Royal family comes here-I am sure they have enough money to go anywhere in the world.If the government takes over it will be like our county system here in Los Angeles where people call 911 inside the ER and die as the wait is so long. Google- Los Angeles County Martin Luther King Hospital and see what you get. It was shut down by the government as the care was so BAD. They are just attempting to reopen it. Those countries are great if you never get sick. If you like to Que up then yeah you may like it. They may actually control their borders or ask for ID before they dispense free health care, It won't work here in the US.
 

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We also have a sue happy society

and that's because our healthcare system is so perfect ,yes?

California alone spends 10 billion a year on illegal immigrants.

and this will..what..allow this to happen in America..where it already happens?? Or just allow Americans who work to have healthcare as well as illegal aliens?

If the government takes over it will be like our county system here in Los Angeles where people call 911 inside the ER and die as the wait is so long.

..can you hear what YOU just said...if the government takes over..your biggest fear is that our broken medical system will be broken?

It was shut down by the government as the care was so BAD

Doesn't that rather argue that the GOVERNMENT has HIGHER standards than private practice??

Look, we could argue all of this forever. There are many different arguments for and against universal healthcare coverage.

Is any system perfect..no.

I never claimed one was.
However, any society which has decided that we're going to have socialized medical for everyone...EXCEPT the people between 18 and 65 who are not in jail and have a job.. the people who pay taxes and support that system..is a busted system.

I don't mind paying for Americans to have healthcare, but I'm an American too, and if I'm going to pay for it all then I'd like to be included.
 

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We also have a sue happy society

and that's because our healthcare system is so perfect ,yes?

California alone spends 10 billion a year on illegal immigrants.

and this will..what..allow this to happen in America..where it already happens?? Or just allow Americans who work to have healthcare as well as illegal aliens?

If the government takes over it will be like our county system here in Los Angeles where people call 911 inside the ER and die as the wait is so long.

..can you hear what YOU just said...if the government takes over..your biggest fear is that our broken medical system will be broken?

It was shut down by the government as the care was so BAD

Doesn't that rather argue that the GOVERNMENT has HIGHER standards than private practice?? NO see below- Most hospitals are private that one is government run- a separate govt org closed it-JCHO

Look, we could argue all of this forever. There are many different arguments for and against universal healthcare coverage.

Is any system perfect..no.

I never claimed one was.
However, any society which has decided that we're going to have socialized medical for everyone...EXCEPT the people between 18 and 65 who are not in jail and have a job.. the people who pay taxes and support that system..is a busted system.

I don't mind paying for Americans to have healthcare, but I'm an American too, and if I'm going to pay for it all then I'd like to be included.
We will agree to disagree- I want the government out of my business.It would be cheaper if you paid for yourself rather than the government tax you for it and if the government runs the hospital you will get substandard care. I would be for a health care that private hospitals ran and the government funded, but they would have to control the borders. The volume alone will bankrupt the US and you are paying for the illegals- can you say stimulus package. a lot of that money came here to pay for Medicaid/Medical.
The government regulates all hospitals that want to be accredited and receive government funds-JCHO-is the organization. I have worked in Hospitals for over 25 years and If you want rationed care that is what you will get or a bankrupt America. A Lot of hospitals are on the brink already. So many have closed down here in CA, it is getting scary. I would rather have good care and pay for it myself than be told after paying in I was too old to deserve a hip replacement or whatever I needed for a quality life.
 

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I have found this thread fascinating and want to thank everyone for posting their opinions. I really like being able to hear from people with passionate voices on both sides of an issue.
 

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Well, the depression has hit here. Was told a few days ago my job was being done away with as part of corporate downsizing (been there 21 years). They do have a position that I could move to, though it pays 25% less, or I can take severence and go job hunting. I just paid off my hospital bills from my broken ankle back in January so the EF fund is depleted. I'll probably take the lesser paying job since opportunities around here are slim. In the meantime, thank God for the food storage I've built up. The chickens are laying and the goats are back in milk, so at least we'll eat. I won't be buying anything anytime soon however, so the economy will suffer one less consumer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
Well, the depression has hit here. Was told a few days ago my job was being done away with as part of corporate downsizing (been there 21 years). They do have a position that I could move to, though it pays 25% less, or I can take severence and go job hunting. I just paid off my hospital bills from my broken ankle back in January so the EF fund is depleted. I'll probably take the lesser paying job since opportunities around here are slim. In the meantime, thank God for the food storage I've built up. The chickens are laying and the goats are back in milk, so at least we'll eat. I won't be buying anything anytime soon however, so the economy will suffer one less consumer.
I am so Sorry Sue.
You are not alone we are all in this together.
We will all get through this time and come out stronger than ever.
 
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hang in there everybody.....you know one thing i have noticed with the news...and i didn't watch it for awhile there coz of all the 'constant' doom & gloom....is that they have shifted focus and in addition to back to reporting all the 'other crap' they were so good at...(before the recession/depression whatever you are calling it)....they are now spending the time they were trying to 'scare' us all with and filling it with frugal people, tips & ideas on how to save, cut back, re-use....and other 'useful' tidbits....maybe we ARE seeing a shift in mentality with them after all.....
doubt it though...probably everyone else turned them off too...and they had to come up with something to get us to start watching again.... whatever the reason...i'm glad they moving in another direction...
 
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