Doctors routinely prescribe "placebos".

359 Views 19 Replies 7 Participants Last post by asimplegirl, Oct 28, 2008

MisaLady

Discussion Starter · Oct 25, 2008

Doctors routinely prescribe "placebos".

I have really mixed feelings about this. If it gives me relief, why should I care whether it's a placebo or not? (Be sure to read their definition of placebo.) But I'm also a big fan of informed patients. But if you tell them "Hey, this medicine really does nothing for your body" then you negate the placebo effect.

What do you guys think?

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Jamauk

· #2 · Oct 25, 2008 (Edited)

I saw this on Drudge yesterday. Like you....I'm not sure how I feel about it.....

ETA: I'm not comfortable with them using antibiotics as the "placebo" as I think they are over prescribed anyway and only help to perpetuate "super bugs"

MisaLady

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 25, 2008

I agree. Not antibiotics. This is why pretty much anything ending in -cillin doesn't work on me. It was overprescribed to me as a child. My mother wouldn't even have to take us in sometimes. Other times, one kid would get strep, she'd call the doc and ask for scrips for all of us "just to be sure they don't get it".

asimplegirl

· #4 · Oct 25, 2008

Who didn't know that doctors are in the pocket of big pharma, who are in turn, in the pocket of the government?

I am not surprised by this at all. This is one of the reasons that doctors do what they do.

They get kick back from companies to perform these double blind studies. They get kick backs from the companies that make vaccines, as well as from the government in the form of cheaper insurance for a rating that the government gives.
There are way to many reasons for you to just try and take care of yourself the best way possible. Eat right, stop with the processed crap, eat whole grains, fruits and veg, drink more water, stay clean, keep your home clean. This will eliminate half of our problems as a nation as far as health.
So why do we run to the doctor when we catch a cold? Can we not use more parsley (which, by the way, has more vitamin c in a 1/4 tsp size than an entire orange), drink fresh low sugar orange juice, use more garlic (which is a natural antiseptic for the bad germs, and not the good ones)?

Anywho, I am going to get off this here soapbox, cause it ain't doing me any good to fuss about this, is it? So, yeah, I do not trust doctors and you should either- unless you trust your life in the hands of the government and big pharma.

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Jamauk

· #5 · Oct 25, 2008

oh dear....do I smell another healthcare debate coming on.

I don't have TIME for this people!!!!!!! :laugh:

Reactions: 1

asimplegirl

· #6 · Oct 25, 2008

hahaah..

I am sorry. I get so upset over that junk. lol.

cheapskate 49

· #7 · Oct 26, 2008

From my understanding a placebo is an inert substance that should have no effect on the body,but it does because the patient believes it will help.What is being described in the article is using drugs-off label-I think it is called, to help a symptom that the med is not approved for,for example I take Lisinopril for high blood pressure but it also resolved my migrane headaches,the same as some folk get relief with Inderal which is a heart med.Many so called side effects of medication give relief for other symptons another example is taking Gravol or Benydryl to help with insommnia,that's not what these drugs are approved for but the side effects help with other problems.
I believe docs are too quick to prescribe but many times that is what the patients want.

Reactions: 1

asimplegirl

· #8 · Oct 26, 2008

I would agree, and this is one of the reasons I do not agree with half of the doctors out there. A mom goes to the doc with her child. The child has a cold. Instead of just treating it the best she knows how, she goes and gets a cough med but feels like the doctor does his job best when given an antibiotic. An we wonder why we have germs that cannot be killed?

Also, on a like subject, running to the ER everytime you stub your toe is what makes our medical bills so high. Its what makes our waiting period for seeing a doc so long, I don't get we people don't see that they have alot to do with alot of this.

Off Rant.

Gibs

· #9 · Oct 26, 2008

I have mixed feelings over this too. I read the article. I think that if the dr perscribed a "real" placebo and the patient got better then not really a lot of harm. There are some patients that go to the dr just to get meds etc, or fake symptoms. But I do not agree with a dr perscribing antibiotics and things like that for somthing other then that it was intended to do. At the same time, if I found out a dr perscribed me something without me actually knowing I would be a little ticked, so i am completely in the grey area with this.

cheapskate 49

· #10 · Oct 26, 2008

I'm not sure of the law in the US but here in Canada I believe a patient has to be informed about placebo usage.The only time I gave a placebo as a nurse was when a patient was on Demerol and a placebo and he had to agree to this but I don't think we told him when the actual shot of demerol was given.
As for giving an antibiotc for a cold etc.that I lay totally at the doctors feet...it should not happen no matter how much the patient asks.

asimplegirl

· #11 · Oct 26, 2008

Here they are allowed to have "double blind" studies between placebos and the real deal. That basically means that the doctor nor the patient knows which is real which isn't, only the government through lot numbers. YOu cannot figure it out no matter who you would speak to. It is really weird and kind of unfair, but that's how it works here. The doctors must agree to allow their patients to be in the studies, though.

MoonMommy

· #12 · Oct 27, 2008

asimplegirl said:
Here they are allowed to have "double blind" studies between placebos and the real deal. That basically means that the doctor nor the patient knows which is real which isn't, only the government through lot numbers. YOu cannot figure it out no matter who you would speak to. It is really weird and kind of unfair, but that's how it works here. The doctors must agree to allow their patients to be in the studies, though.

Double blind studies are used in order to remove as much bias as possible from a study. If neither the doctor nor the subject knows if they are on the placebo or the drug, then the doctor can't influence the subject in even the slightest way. It is the best way to conduct drug studies.

Also, people (patients/subjects) have to agree and sign consent forms before they can participate in a drug study. They are made aware of what kind of study it is and often they are told that they may be given either the drug or a placebo.

Parksfamily5

· #13 · Oct 27, 2008 (Edited)

asimplegirl said:
Who didn't know that doctors are in the pocket of big pharma, who are in turn, in the pocket of the government?

I am not surprised by this at all. This is one of the reasons that doctors do what they do.

They get kick back from companies to perform these double blind studies. They get kick backs from the companies that make vaccines, as well as from the government in the form of cheaper insurance for a rating that the government gives.

I think you need to do a little more research before making such statements. I know in our state Pharmaceutical reps are not allowed to give any kind of gifts to physicians. The statement that you made is equivilent to me stating that anyone on SSI should go out and get a job because there is something that they could be doing instead of collecting from the government.
Both statements are stereotypical and not true in all cases.
I am amazed that you think that Physicians are in the pocket of government since the government is always putting new regulations on them that really are not in the patients best interest.

There are way to many reasons for you to just try and take care of yourself the best way possible.
I agree, if that is your view of your doctor than you really should just take care of yourself.

Anywho, I am going to get off this here soapbox, cause it ain't doing me any good to fuss about this, is it? So, yeah, I do not trust doctors and you should either- unless you trust your life in the hands of the government and big pharma.

[SIZE="4"]Are these the same doctors that have been taking care of you since you were 13? I am sure that with all of the problems that you have stated that you have you would have done a much better job diagnosing and taking care of yourself.
[/SIZE]

asimplegirl

· #14 · Oct 28, 2008 (Edited)

Why are you being so nasty?

Firstly, it is common knowledge that the government gives the pharmaceutical companies the right to give certain "kickbacks" to the individual offices. NO, these may not be monetary, but in return for prescribing more of that one company's drugs, that doctor is in return, given samples to hand out, and other things of the such.

The government also makes it allowable to give cheaper insurance for the doctors who give more vaccines.

Yes, these are these doctors. Even the one I see now. The doctor has reps in and out. They talk to him, give him samples, then he in turn every week that they visit change my meds to their newest thing. Quite frankly, I am tired of it.

Lots of people notice it. I try to do my best to take care of myself. My doctor and I have discussed it and he admits that he receives certain benefits from prescribing his patients the meds that are "suggested", and he can see how that would annoy me.

So, lower your font size, lighten it up, it is after all just like caps..the equivalent of yelling, and makes you come off as very defensive.

I stand by what I said, have spoken to a medical professional about it, and have researched it myself. I have found what I see to be the reason we are an over medicated nation, with over priced medication.

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asimplegirl

· #15 · Oct 28, 2008 (Edited)

The statement that you made is equivilent to me stating that anyone on SSI should go out and get a job because there is something that they could be doing instead of collecting from the government.

By the way, stating that a doctor gets a kickback is nothing like this. If you have something to say, say it, don't thinly veil it under another topic, then jump all over someone.

There are way to many reasons for you to just try and take care of yourself the best way possible.

I stated this after I spoke of people going to the ER for a cold. In that case, yes they should. They are only making YOUR bills higher.

Parksfamily5

· #16 · Oct 28, 2008

First of all, sorry, I just tried to make the font different to break up your statements from mine. I am new at that. I apologize and was not yelling.
Second, If your doctor truely gives you different meds just because he gets something from the drug rep than I would say it is time to find a new doctor. I have worked with many doctors. The only time I have seen this with samples is if a patient was self pay or their insurance didn't cover a specific bc pill than the doc would give them several samples to help the patient out.
If I have something to say, I will. I disagree with lots of your statements on this board but have never felt a need to say anything. To each their own opinion. But I do think that this was Very stereotypical of you.

Parksfamily5

· #17 · Oct 28, 2008

I tried to change the font on my origional post but couldn't. I met to italicize it not make it bold.

asimplegirl

· #18 · Oct 28, 2008

OKay, well that makes sense. (the font thing).. It probably made me take a little worse than if I had seen it in regularfont. I could just picture someone so mad!lol.

Anywho, I am on medicaid, and my state pays for all name brand drugs, certain things I just cannot get in generic. I have never gotten samples. The doctor tells me why, and he changes it. I cannot change doctors. Since I am on medicaid (for children) and not medicare, he is the only doctor within so many hundred miles that will prescribe me the pain meds I need for chronic pain. Its him or nothing. I wish I could change it. He is pompous, and thinks he is better than everyone, and he barely even talks to me. I only get 12 visits per year ANYWHERE, including specialists, ER visits, anything, and I don't even see him but about three times a year. But, he makes me come in and he bills my medicaid card every month. So, that eye prescription I needed changed for the last few years? I had to pay out of pocket. ER visit? Came out of pocket. I have not been able to see my oncologist since I turned 18. The PCP will not allow me to use my visits elsewhere. It sucks, but that's life.

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Parksfamily5

· #19 · Oct 28, 2008

Wow. Too bad you don't have any other choice for your doctor. I know that I called my doctor ( who is an internist) a family doctor and I thought he was going to croak!
Anyway, I was just trying to make the point that not all docs fall into this catagory. I know several who really care about their patients. But with anything, you get some that think they are smarter or better.

asimplegirl

· #20 · Oct 28, 2008

I think that the ones who get paid by the government by either medicare or medicaid are usually so jaded by the people that do come in using the government that they learn to just back up, and not get close to anyone, you know?

I know that I am really close to the former nurse practitioner, whom I saw regularly, but who quit because of the doctor's attitude toward patients. I was going to add that there was a pain management clinic about an hour away, inside of a hospital, but guess who runs it?? You got it. My doctor, lol.

This is what scares me so badly about a more socialized health care system than we already have. The doctors who accept both people that do and don't have government insurance (medicaid/care), tend to care much much more than those who only accept the card. I have generally found, before being on this card, that the doctors I saw cared much much more.

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