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I know that lately there has been a lot of controversy over the whole issue of gun control and I wanted to post something that was sent to me from the Iowa Conceal to Carry forums. Granted, it won't be the most unbiased of sources, but I think it does a good job of explaining a lot of facts.

IowaCarry.Org Newsletter –April 2007 This is a special alert edition newsletter.

We, at IowaCarry.Org, wish to offer our sympathy to the families and friends of the students killed in a senseless act of violence on the campus of the University of Virginia Monday, April 16, 2007. We live in a land of freedom and unfortunately, those freedoms can occasionally result in acts of violence that are unimaginable to the rest of us.

Politicizing a tragedy

It's unfortunate that within hours of this horrific tragedy visited upon a place that should be a sanctuary of learning for people barely out of their teens, anti-gun groups and individuals like Rosy O'Donnell were already using the media to call for more gun control. She was trying to convince those who would listen that had something been done after the cries of increased gun control been implemented after another horrendous school shooting at Columbine High School, Mondays shooting never would have happened. Rosie, it was already against the law for 23 year old Cho Seung-Hui to possess a firearm and possess a firearm on campus and murder has always been against the law. We shouldn't have to be responding to the fanatics who are demanding more gun control but we will not let their emotional rhetoric go unanswered either. As we look at this situation now, we can see that additional gun laws wouldn't have made any difference and a loosening of gun laws might have prevented so many deaths. Cho Seung-Hui had been referred to a mental health unit as a result of his stalking and harassment of two other female students. This is a question asked on federal form 4473 regarding whether you have ever been treated for a mental health condition. Cho lied on his form. What law would have kept him from lying on that federal form? Anyone can answer those questions any way they wish. In a free society, should the gun shop owner had the right to investigate Cho's medical records? Who would give up their freedom for a false sense of security? No additional law would have stopped Cho from lying on the permit. What about a law making it illegal to carry a firearm onto any school grounds? We already have that law. It simply creates a free fire zone where a disturbed individual knows that he or she is completely safe to walk from room to room, killing innocent individuals at random. What is ironic and now tremendously unfortunate, the Virginia Assembly shot down House Bill 1572 last year. This bill would have permitted trained and licensed students and faculty to carry concealed weapons on campus. On Monday, after the shooting, the individuals who assisted in getting this bill rejected had 'no statement". I can't say that I would have had a statement either had I had a hand in making sure that Cho would have no one to fear as he went on his shooting rampage. How does Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker feel now after the statement he made immediately after the legislation was tabled? How did he feel then, "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty, and visitors feel safe on our campus"?. Does Larry feel safe now? Did Larry feel safe after two bomb threats were called into the school last week? The Virginia Assembly aided and abetted Cho Seung-Hui buy providing him a safe haven for someone bent on harming others.

By now, everyone knows what happened Monday morning but the questions keep coming up. After what was classed as a murder/suicide in one of the other campus halls at around 7:30 in the morning, no alarms were sounded, no notification was given for an hour even though after a murder/suicide occurs here is usually a gun somewhere in the near vicinity. No gun was found but the case was considered "isolated" These can all be considered peripheral issues to the main facts: It wasn't an assault weapon that was used to take so many lives even though so called 'assault weapons' remain the main focus of the anti-self defense fanatics and had even one student or faculty member been allowed to carry a licensed handgun on campus, the death toll almost certainly would have been greatly reduced.

The Talk Shows

Listening to the talk shows yesterday, it was a little surprising that the consensus of the moderators was: "If only they allowed guns on campus by trained and licensed students and faculty this would not have been as horrendous as it was". Finally, some people are coming to their senses and understanding that a school or any other establishment that does not permit legal firearms is simply inviting criminals who are illegally carrying firearms. They provide a safe haven for those whose intent is to harm others There is 80 million gun owners in the United States possessing 250 million guns. This raises two issues:

1. Guns are never, ever, going to go away. They will always be with us even if it's a handy man building a zip gun in his garage and;

2. We see these shooting for the horrendous events that they are but divide the number of guns and gun owners in the U.S. and divide that by the number of shootings that occur after you subtract the 60 percent that are suicides. My calculator won't figure a percentage with that many zeros since the percentage of shootings versus guns and owners is so small. It's like trying to figure out what percentage of cars the public owns will be involved in an accident. You have millions and millions of cars that go from the showroom floor to the scrap heap without ever hitting a phone pole.

The media is the problem making it sound as if school shootings happen on a regular basis. Again, how many schools are there in the U.S. and how many
shooting rampages are there? Fortunately, they are rare. A final note, one of the most anti-gun countries in the world, Japan, just had a shooting on Tuesday that killed the mayor of Nagasaki. Guns are almost completely outlawed in Japan. Gun control does not work. Self defense does. Again, our deepest sympathies go out to all the families and friends of those who lost their lives in Mondays shooting.

Hopefully something good will come of this: people should not be left defenseless.We encourage all of our IowaCarry members to start a dialog with and remind their lawmakers and sheriffs about the benefits of concealed carry.

Steve Deace Show

Mark your calanders and schedules for Monday, April 23rd. From 4 to 6PM, our member and resident author Skip Coryell will be on 1040 WHO with Steve Deace. They'll be talking about VT shootings, gun control, CCW and family defense. Skips latest book "Blood in the Streets" on sale now! Go to www.skipcoryell.com to learn more!



I know not everyone will agree with this, but I would be interested to know your thought process on it.
 

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It's not the guns that need to be controlled, it's the bullets! Which reminds of of a joke by I think Chris Rock, but don't quote me....lol! He said if they charged $5000 a bullet, people would think twice about buying them. Most couldn't even afford them!
 

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It's not the guns that need to be controlled, it's the bullets! Which reminds of of a joke by I think Chris Rock, but don't quote me....lol! He said if they charged $5000 a bullet, people would think twice about buying them. Most couldn't even afford them!
There are people who make their own ammunition.

Thanks for the article Mrs. McDowell.
 

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It's not the guns that need to be controlled, it's the bullets! Which reminds of of a joke by I think Chris Rock, but don't quote me....lol! He said if they charged $5000 a bullet, people would think twice about buying them. Most couldn't even afford them!
So true, BUT you will still have the black market. For the right price, you can find almost anything you want. Also the NRA is the largest lobbyists on the hill. Until they are behind some sort of gun control, it won't happen. Which probably will happen when hell freezes over or you see pigs instead of birds in the sky. They see that its their "right" and "freedom" to carry big guns and little too(don't want to discriminate LoL). Not saying that we should rid the world of every single firearm out there, but who really needs a AK47 or Semi Automatic? (not talking military, which I am not sure what they carry anyways) I also understand that their is the 2nd amendment, but realistically when was that drafted? 200+ years ago, when they couldn't fathom the extent guns would be down the line. They where dealing with cannons that took a army to move and shoot or muskets that took longer to load then someone with a assault rifle can kill 10+ people.

I don't think there EVER will be any type of gun control, as sad as that is. Sure school shootings don't happen all the time, but one is too many. This wasn't the first and won't be the last. I also can't say I am surprised it happen.

Now I am just rambling LoL... My thoughts still go out to the victims, families and even the shooter. He was a very mentally sick and troubled. Since we can't save the world with gun control maybe the focus should be the troubled souls that everyone is overlooking and focusing on the guns alone?
 

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I've lived on both sides. In America, we had a handgun in the house but did not carry it on us. I carried pepper spray with me. Then we moved to England where it is illegal to carry a gun and it's VERY hard to own a gun. Plus we are not allowed to carry mace or pepper spray. The only policeman I've seen with a gun are the ones that guard the military base.

This scares me because there is a blackmarket in Leeds (city nearest to me) for guns. Even if you outlaw guns and make it harder for ppl to get it, the people you don't want having them end up with them anyways.
 

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I am soooo wishy-washy on this topic:shrug2: I don't want a gun for myself(yeah, so that the bad guy can knock me down and shoot me with my own gun??!), I don't want an armed militia of citizens who shoot first and ask questions later, but at the same time.....criminals and people with severe mental illness are armed, and those of us who DO have guns keep them locked at home for "safety". Can't help but wonder if one or two "good ole Southern boys" at VaTech had been able to take this guy down.....or would more gunfire have just created more chaos, and made it difficult to tell who was "good" and who was "bad".
As I see these news reports...what has my undies in a bunch is that Cho had a history of stalking 2 women, had been taken for help when he was thought to be suicidal, was diagnosed by those drs as 'an imminent threat to himself and others', writes stories/plays that are so graphically violent and disturbing his professor feels the need to take them to authorities(whose hands are tied until he "does something"), she tutored him one-on-one because the other students were afraid of him, everyone describes him as weird and antisocial........and yet, when he goes to a LEGAL gun shop, his computer screening comes back OK????!!!
This reminds me too much of Columbine...we asked the same questions then? Why were kids dressed like Neo-Nazis and known to be hate-filled and anti-social, allowed to just "do their own thing"? Nothing has changed. It's a "good" thing to be accepting and tolerant(God, I've come to HATE that word!) of those who are different than us.....but I think that all this "tolerance" is coming back to bite us in the butt. Being a different race or faith is one thing....being a SOCIOPATH is another. I don't know the answer....but as in Columbine and 9/11....it seems like the "right" to do as you da*n well please is greater than MY right to safety. And...at the same time, we can not be "profiling" people who suffer from mental illness as a threat to society. OY!!!
Ok....hijacking the thread and vacating the soapbox now:soapbox:
 

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I've lived on both sides. In America, we had a handgun in the house but did not carry it on us. I carried pepper spray with me. Then we moved to England where it is illegal to carry a gun and it's VERY hard to own a gun. Plus we are not allowed to carry mace or pepper spray. The only policeman I've seen with a gun are the ones that guard the military base.

This scares me because there is a blackmarket in Leeds (city nearest to me) for guns. Even if you outlaw guns and make it harder for ppl to get it, the people you don't want having them end up with them anyways.
Jen- I have a few questions? If you are not allowed even basic protection like pepper spray and you are being attacked do other people jump in to help? Are they quick to report crime?What happens if you are being attacked and you kill the attacker?
 

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I believe in some restrictions (armor piercing ammo for civilians is totally unnecessary) but also believe in the right to Conceal and Carry. My exhusband is a complete lunatic and the fact SO has a gun in the car and one that we keep in the house relieves a great deal of fear for me and the kids. The verbal threats from the ex died down considerably after he investigated SO and found out he had the C & C permits. (Ex is in law enforcement and although they aren't supposed to snoop around without cause, he does).
 

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Technical Support Sleuth
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Discussion Starter #10
We have an AK-47 in our house. (Hubby is military and the weapon he carries depends on the job he has....usually an m16, but he has carried an m4).

Hubby rarely shoots the ak but when he does, it's for recreational purposes at a secured location.


I am a firm believer in the concealed to carry law. The shooter at the incident in Salt Lake City was stopped b/c of a man carrying a concealed weapon.
 

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If you are not allowed even basic protection like pepper spray and you are being attacked do other people jump in to help?
You can carry a personal attack alarm. Further, you pretty much can't go anywhere in the UK without being on CCTV. There are cameras all over the place. There are alarms in the street you can press to alert a CCTV operator to a crime. Most of these cameras have microphones and speakers on them so you can communicate directly with the police. There are lots of police around. We still have beat bobbies here - cops who walk around neighbourhoods and city streets. No, they don't carry guns, but most of the time they don't need to. They do, however, carry pepper spray.

Are they quick to report crime?
See CCTV, above.

What happens if you are being attacked and you kill the attacker?
It's self defense.
 

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I am a firm believer in the concealed to carry law. The shooter at the incident in Salt Lake City was stopped b/c of a man carrying a concealed weapon.
I agree! We don't have any, just rifles for hunting (which dh doesn't even do), but I totally agree. I wish someone would have been "packing" at Va Tech and taken that guy out right away.
 

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You can carry a personal attack alarm. Further, you pretty much can't go anywhere in the UK without being on CCTV. There are cameras all over the place. There are alarms in the street you can press to alert a CCTV operator to a crime. Most of these cameras have microphones and speakers on them so you can communicate directly with the police. There are lots of police around. We still have beat bobbies here - cops who walk around neighbourhoods and city streets. No, they don't carry guns, but most of the time they don't need to. They do, however, carry pepper spray.



See CCTV, above.



It's self defense.
The alarms to press, that sounds like a great idea, and I do like it very much, so long as I'm standing and able to get to one.The speakers are also great, if I can muster the strength to speak.These would be great for some of the less violent crimes.( I know they are all tramatic, but things like purse snatching, etc. this would be great. Although, most people here use cell phones to report those types of crimes.)I would be uneasy thinking that pepper spray would be the only line of defense against someone whacked out on speed or meth- but hey! if a copper came before he got me, maybe I could run away. Poor copper.I do not know if I can run away when someone is being hurt. I would feel safer if I could I guess.What a choice to have to make.( What do they pay these people?)I think I could meet the requirement to possess a gun in these countries.And I would feel better knowing that I could defend my home, and have no fear of prosecution.Hey, I can look down a long barrel and still hit my mark, just as easily as a short one.
 

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I have to side with the saying "gun control means using both hands". ;)

We are a gun-lovin' family...it's a comfort to know that they're here and we all know how to use them. I feel unendingly blessed to live in the USA where we have the right to. I don't think there should be any conditions of types of guns civilians can own, either. That is just :bs2: .

Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!! :D
(this is from a song from 1942 if anyone is unfamiliar).
 

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Personally I will not have a gun in my home, in my car or on my person. We do not hunt, are not military, are not in law enforcement and have no want or need for a gun.

However, I am not against anyone else having them. If my parents, family, friends or strangers wish to keep a gun, then that is their business. It is not my place to push my personal beliefs on them. If it is legal for them to have one then so be it.
 

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I have to side with the saying "gun control means using both hands". ;)

We are a gun-lovin' family...it's a comfort to know that they're here and we all know how to use them. I feel unendingly blessed to live in the USA where we have the right to. I don't think there should be any conditions of types of guns civilians can own, either. That is just :bs2: .

Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!! :D
(this is from a song from 1942 if anyone is unfamiliar).
I was thinkng the same way!All day, I have felt so grateful to live in the good ole USA. Things that I have so taken for granted are seen in a new light.And a police officer without a weapon? I can't imagine.( I like to see cops that are big, burly, and packing a big gun!:lol: )
 

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Gun control would not have kept the gun out of the VT Killer's hands. He bought his guns through legal channels. If you are not a criminal and decide to get a gun, you can. There is nothing that stops that same person decide later on to use that gun in a illegal manner. People who want to commit a crime with a gun will always find a way to get them.
 

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I was thinkng the same way!All day, I have felt so grateful to live in the good ole USA. Things that I have so taken for granted are seen in a new light.And a police officer without a weapon? I can't imagine.( I like to see cops that are big, burly, and packing a big gun!:lol: )
No one wants to get rid of guns completely. Thats just ridiculous. Of course people want trained professionals (military and cops) to be armed. Hunters can have their guns and those that want to carry a gun for protection, fine too. But what will it hurt to put stricter laws and regulations in place for those that want to get a gun. Alittle longer wait and more paperwork? Why does someone who isn't miltary need a AK47 or body arm piercing bullets? Sure there will be a black market for these things as long as there is a demand for them. BUT putting stricter laws in place will make it more difficult. Some people will feel defeated by that alone. It's a start.
 

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In some areas, even trained professionals are not allowed guns.(see previous posts.)Maybe I'm naive, but I do not personally know anyone who has an AK47 or body piercing bullets. If this is needed for military, or police- no problem.But I do not know of any regular citizens that have them, or carry them. Maybe criminals?I am not personally against paperwork, a wait, or more background checking.I can't see where any law abiding citizen would be. No wait for the wicked.Getta gun today, for a price.
 

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I was going for the extreme LoL Plus someone said they didn't think we should limit the type of guns avalible to civilans. So in the near future, you just might, especially if others feel this way. I think there will be laws pasted to reinforce peoples rights to own guns, before we ever see a tiny, itsy, bitsy, step to any type of gun control. I don't know anyone with them either. Hell I don't know anyone that owns a gun or wishes to own a gun.
 
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