Frugal Village Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,280 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Older, wealthier Americans are the new renters
The number of higher-income rental households has doubled in the last decade.
High-income households drove nearly 30 percent of rental growth over the last decade.
Today's older Americans want flexibility to follow their children and grandchildren.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/14/older-wealthier-americans-are-the-new-renters.htm

Hmmm....have you found this to be true in your communities?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,903 Posts
I was not able to get into the article from the link. However, whenever I hear references to "high income" or "higher income" households I think of my own situation.

A person's income can be very misleading. Just looking at our family income, we would probably fall into the "higher income" category. But we live in a place where the cost of living is really high. And houses are really expensive. Like half a million dollars might get you a "fixer upper." I am not talking about mansions here, just regular houses. So it is entirely possible that many of the higher income people can find it difficult to afford a house. (We live in a condo currently. Condos are about as much as you would expect to pay for a nice house in some low cost of living small town.)

I suspect that a disproportionate amount of higher income people live in cities with high cost of living, simply because the jobs there tend to pay more.

People also tend to misjudge how well off higher income people are because they forget that higher income means higher percentage for taxes as well. For example, $100,000 a year is not twice as much take home pay as $50,000 a year. The family with $100,000 income will be paying a higher percentage in taxes.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,753 Posts
I don't think it's a surprise that retirees might like to rent. Taking care of a property is time-consuming and you have to own lots of expensive equipment like lawnmowers and snowblowers and pay for maintenance of same. Some retirees can't or don't want to deal with routine maintenance, plus there's the cost of maintaining the property like new shingles, appliances, furnace, AC, water heater, paint, etc, etc. It's endless, expensive, and tiring. Of course renters pay for all these things indirectly, but it's still nice not to have to worry about those things. For example, my mom found her water heater leaking in a closet at 5 AM one morning, and by just calling the apartment manager immediately, she had a new water heater installed before noon and all the mess cleaned up, plus her stuff that was in the closet moved out where she could deal with it. Luckily her stuff was in totes so nothing got wet and it wasn't a lot of work for her. If she had owned that property, it would have been a much bigger deal and a big expense for her when she's on a fixed income.

It would also be nice to be able to be gone for extended periods of time for travel or whatever and not have to worry as much about a property where someone else keeps the lawn mowed and deals with any problems that may arise while the tenants are gone.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,010 Posts
I am currently renting and thank the good lord every day that I do not own. For less than $1000 a month I get heat, hot water, electric, and rent on a two-story apartment. Professional property management company takes care of the property. So far we have gone through getting a sliding door replaced, sealing a roof around skylights, fixing a leaky toilet and repairing the wood floor underneath that rotted, installing a damper in the chimney, and still yet to be dealt with, problem with the water heater snapping off the reset button, squirrels, and zone heating having a problem in one zone. All of this has cost me zilch. I also get my storm windows/screens switched out, and smoke detectors maintained. I am amazed that the owners make any money at all off of me.

Not to mention I don't have to pay property taxes in a very wealthy town, and my renters insurance is a fraction of what homeowners insurance would be. Plus plowing and lawn mowing is taken care of.

Yep, I think I will keep renting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,903 Posts
This thread has me wondering if condos are less common in other areas than they are where I live. I am thinking they might be more common in larger cities.

I do not remember there being condos in my hometown. There may have been some, but no one I knew lived in condo. Even single people with no kids or pets bought houses.

Where I live, I feel like there are at least as many condos as there are apartments, maybe more. But it occurs to me that if I were to move to some place else, condos might be a rare thing and I would need to choose between renting or buying a house.

I am not thinking of moving in the near future because my job and my husband's job are not too portable. However, when we retire I there is a good chance of moving somewhere with a lower cost of living. In other words, almost any place else. I live in the Washington DC areas. New York City, Hawaii and about half of California is more expensive than where I live. Everywhere else in the US is cheaper.

Another thought on renting....
When I lived in an apartment, they raised the rent by around $50 every year. That is what motivated us to buy a condo. Is this kind of rent increase normal in other places? Or is it just here?

On a whim I just checked the apartment building where I used to live about 20 years ago. The rent has gone from $950 to $1950 so the $50 a year trend held.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,903 Posts
I have been thinking more about the whole retirement apartment thing. I have not decided on a specific city yet, but it will be one I have not lived in before. Even with researching a city and visiting it, I still will not know what it is like to live there till I actually live there. There is also the possibility of being happy with the city, but not the neighborhood. I want an option that makes it easier to move after a year of two if I want.

I want the option to move if the neighborhood goes downhill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
I have been thinking more about the whole retirement apartment thing. I have not decided on a specific city yet, but it will be one I have not lived in before. Even with researching a city and visiting it, I still will not know what it is like to live there till I actually live there. There is also the possibility of being happy with the city, but not the neighborhood. I want an option that makes it easier to move after a year of two if I want.

I want the option to move if the neighborhood goes downhill.

Well one place I would take off my list is Florida. People are moving here in droves, and it is really putting the local governments, and the state, in a frienzy regarding what to do about water. Unlike most states that have access to rivers and water sources on two/three/or even four sides, Florida can only access water within its boundaries, or on the north border. There is already a lawsuit between Georgia and Florida over the amount of water being pulled from a river. Water quality is going downhill, and the Tampa area is considering "cleaning" waste water in to drinking water. We have nicknamed it toilet to tap. Gross!!! Daytona is testing the same idea. The cost of living is going through the roof. Condo's on the beach where I live, and zero lot line houses that they are cramming side by side. I cannot wait to be able to afford to get out of Florida. Not sure where yet, but we have one of the highest property taxes in the state, and they used to be quite reasonable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,066 Posts
Thanks for your post Mary. We were thinking of retiring to Florida so I just read your post to my dh. We have 6-7 years left to decide where we would like to live but I am really sick and tired of cold snowy winters. Seen enough of those to last me a lifetime.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,903 Posts
The thing about places with no snow in winter is that it gets really really hot in the summer. So it is kind of a trade off.

I have been looking into the Mid South area. Places like Kentucky and Tennessee have some snow, but not a much. Summer is hot, but not as bad as Texas, Florida and the deep South. We live in the DC area so the climate is very similar.

I am also looking into some places in the Midwest that get a little more snow than here but not a lot more. For example Indianapolis gets 50 percent more snow than DC. So it is not as bad as places that get 3 or 4 times as much snow.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,753 Posts
With climate change happening at an accelerating rate, it's hard to know where to move. The way things are now will likely be different in 10-20-30 yrs, particularly if steps aren't taken to deal with it. The point about water issues in Florida is a good one, and it's a huge reason we ruled out moving to anywhere in the desert southwest. They already have water issues, and it's only going to get worse. Stuff like that is a big concern everywhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,031 Posts
Water issues are everywhere. California gets water from other states and those states don't want to send water to them anymore because of the increase in people moving to the state who has the water. LA purchased 100,000 acres of land (eminent domain?) and paid the landowners for it. The land was rich in water but is now a dust bowl. L.A. also took huge amounts of water from Mono Lake, creating air pollution (another dust bowl) and has had to make residents conserve water. Farmers are on water conservation but most have ignored the ruling. Water is a major issue in California!

We hear about third world countries without water but don't realize that we are having the same issues.

I think living in a place for a month would be a good idea to see the area. Look at hospitals. transportation, cost of living, etc.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,753 Posts
We don't have water issues yet. Hard to know the future, of course. But it sounds like we can expect other impacts here, including drought.

Part of our dilemma about moving is we live in an economically depressed area, and it may take years to sell our house. We can't buy another one till this one sells. We will most likely have trouble finding a new house in our target area, so will probably have to rent in between. It's a problem with 5 pets. We're hoping we won't have to move for at least 10 years. Renting long term is out of the question. It could get interesting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
I own a 3/3 condo in Daytona Beach Shores and LOVE IT. I'm within 1/4 mile from the grocery store, Walgreens, the dog park and senior center. I couldn't afford to rent here. My HOA dues of $400 a month gets me three TV DVRs, high speed internet, two heated swimming pools, water, a huge social room, a generator if the power goes out, a workout room, hot tub, sauna, handicap accessible ramps throughout. My taxes are $2,900 a year and insurance on the interior/personal items another $800. I can open the door and smell the ocean and the social activities here are wonderful.

I bought it for $260,000 less than three years ago and the value now, per appraisal, is $350,000. Even if I had taken out a mortgage for it, my payment would be less than $1,000.

DB Shores is not very crowded compared to other places in Florida but rentals are getting very high. A lot of retirees are moving to the West Coast or mid-Florida (Villages) and those places are crowded.

Around 40% of DB Shores residents own Summer homes in other countries or up North so Summers are pretty dead as far as crowds go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,903 Posts
I guess weather/climate change could loosely fall under the neighborhood changing category. So either way, I renting would help out.

Some parts of the country get lots of rain, so would most likely not be subject to water shortages. Flooding would be more of an issue. Water shortages are not a new issue for states in the Southwest. My husband lived in northern California as a child and her remembers water shortages happening all the time. This would have been around 40 years ago. He tells me we could not move to California because I like long showers. He lived in one of the not as nice areas of California, so he is not eager to move back anyway.

I feel like moving in a place for a year is probably the best to tell if a place is right for you. It is good to get a feel for what all four seasons are like in an area, especially if the climate is different than where you have been living. If you are thinking about a place that has a tourist season, it is good to live through one tourist season. But also a year gives you a chance to enjoy all the yearly events the city may offer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
I own a 3/3 condo in Daytona Beach Shores and LOVE IT. I'm within 1/4 mile from the grocery store, Walgreens, the dog park and senior center. I couldn't afford to rent here. My HOA dues of $400 a month gets me three TV DVRs, high speed internet, two heated swimming pools, water, a huge social room, a generator if the power goes out, a workout room, hot tub, sauna, handicap accessible ramps throughout. My taxes are $2,900 a year and insurance on the interior/personal items another $800. I can open the door and smell the ocean and the social activities here are wonderful.

I bought it for $260,000 less than three years ago and the value now, per appraisal, is $350,000. Even if I had taken out a mortgage for it, my payment would be less than $1,000.

DB Shores is not very crowded compared to other places in Florida but rentals are getting very high. A lot of retirees are moving to the West Coast or mid-Florida (Villages) and those places are crowded.

Around 40% of DB Shores residents own Summer homes in other countries or up North so Summers are pretty dead as far as crowds go.
You are right up the street from me. I am in New Smyrna Beach. When I moved here back in the early 90s, there was more land than condo's on the beach. It was amazing to see the ocean driving along A1A. I am not sure where you can do that now, definitely not in New Smyrna or Daytona. They are anticipating a 10% property tax increase next year, and the schools are also asking for more money. Most of the building is happening around me, they are knocking down every tree on 179 acres across the street from me to put in 370 zero lot line homes. They will literally live several feet from each other. One of the developers set fire to 200 acres last year because they wouldn't give him a permit in the time frame he wanted it along Interstate 95, which put many homes in jeopardy, along with breathing issues that sent many seniors to the hospital. So many people want to move to Florida that developers are getting greedy trying to build build build. The houses are going up so fast, I wonder how well they are built and will hold up during a hurricane.

The Villages is a very large community, and they are getting sink holes right and left because the developer filled in swamp land. There was an old saying "I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you" and I guess its coming true. Two houses were almost swallowed up last year. Scary stuff. Then of course Port Orange and Ormond Beach are growing out of control. I am fortunate enough to be on well and septic, on almost two acres, and plan to keep them as long as I can. I simply cannot fathom drinking treated toilet water. As soon as they forcefeed city water and sewer on me, which we expect them to do, I start packing boxes.

Many people from Florida are moving to South Carolina and Tennessee. A friend of mine just sold her home in a subdivision and bought a 3/2 on two acres for $79K, property taxes of just over $300, and she loves it. Another friend sold her beachfront home for 1.25 million and bought 40 acres in South Carolina for $250K with a house that is huge, but she is renovating/updating. Its the old farmhouse style that she loves, and the profit from her sale is incredible.

I guess it all depends on what you are used to, and what you are looking for. I am not used to the urban style of life, and can't imagine having a neighbor that is within armshot/earshot. Some people aren't bothered by that. HOAs are also the new norm in Florida, and although I don't have one, my son does. He had to submit four designs for a simple fence that they required him to put up. We were floored when they rejected the first three, and approved the worst looking, cheapest design.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
Hi Neighbor!

NSB has become overgrown. Very sad. I remember when it was a sleepy little beach town in the late 70s, when I arrived.
I just love looking at the ocean from our roof top balcony. You can still see the ocean in Ormond-by-the-Sea and much of Flagler.

If you are homesteaded in Florida, the maximum they can raise your property tax is 3%. That is in the constitution. Good thing, too.

Regarding hearing neighbors. Inside I have never heard anyone. It might because our building is solid concrete with steel beams. Last year I had category 5, triple pane windows installed and it made a huge difference.

My electric bill for heating/cooling 2,000 square feet has never been over $100. I consider that a huge advantage over other places.

I've lived in upstate NY and my friends and relatives pay 3 to 4 times the property taxes I do and five times the heating/cooling/electric.

I've owned property in different areas of Florida for the past 30 years. The ones without HOAs have been poor investments because I always kept my property well cared for yet neighbors let their homes deteriorate, making my property value decline. It all depends on the area and what is important to you.

You couldn't pay me enough to move back up North. I like swimming in February!

Garlic is my favorite restaurant in NSB.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,903 Posts
At my current place (a condo) I only hear the neighbors when they are in the hall. Or when I am in the hall. Once both of us are inside our units, I do not hear them.

The first place I lived in as an adult had very thin floors and ceilings. It was a large old house divided into apartments. I think part of that was because it was never designed to be apartments.

I am not really interested in a house. I do not want to do yard work or shovel snow. Maybe if I found one for a really good deal, I would get it and hire someone to do that stuff. But generally, I want to get either a condo or apartment.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top